Kiddush Nesachim

Menachot (7:4) | Yisrael Bankier | 11 years ago

We have learnt that while many of the mincha offerings were brought independently, some were brought either alongside or secondary to other korbanot. Nesachim, consisting of wine and a mincha offering were brought with a korban olah or shelamim. The Mishnah (7:4) discusses a case where one sanctifies the nesachim by placing them in a *kli sharet * (vessel designated for service) and the korban was then found to be invalid. The Mishnah teaches that if there is another sacrifice that requires nesachim it can be brought for that one.¹ If not, then the nesachim should be left beyond the required time to offer it, thereby invalidating it (lina), and burnt in the manner of invalid korbanot. 

The Gemara(79a) cites the statement of R’ Zeira that nesachim are only sanctified at the time of slaughter. Consequently it concludes that when the Mishnah teaches that the korban was found to be pasul it must mean that something went wrong at the time of zerika (casting the blood). If it happened at the time of shechita the nesachim would not be sanctified.

Rashi understands that according to R’ Zeiram, prior to shechita the nesachim are considered chullin (unsanctified). Along this line the Bartenura explains that only after shechita are the nesachim sanctified such that they can be invalid due to lina or yotze (being taken outside the azarah). 

The Tosfot however disagree. They understand that once the nesachim are placed in the kli sharet they are already sanctified and issues of lina and yotze already apply. When R’ Zeira mentions sanctification at the time of shechita this refers to that the nesachim must be used for that korban and cannot be used for another.

In an earlier Mishnah we saw a debate regarding whether pigul of a korban affects the nesachim as well. R’ Meir maintains it does whereas the Chachamim disagree. The Gemara (15b) cites a Beraita that elaborates on this debate. They asked R’ Meir that nesachim could be brought on a separate day. Consequently it should be treated independently and unaffected by the pigul of the korban. R’ Meir responded that he only maintains that the nesachim are affected if brought alongside the korban. The Chachamim ask that even if they are brought with the korban they could be used for a different korban. Rava, in the Gemara, answers for R’ Meir that the nesachim are fixed to that korban after shechita.

The Tosfot asks that this Gemara seems to imply that according to the Chachamim even after shechita the nesachim can be used for a different korban. That appears to contradict our Mishnah. The Tosfot provide two suggestions. The first is that our Mishnah is presenting the opinion of R’ Meir and not the Chachamim. The second answer attempts to resolve the two Mishnayot. They explain that Mishnah refers to shechitat pigul. In that case, since it is an invalid shechita the Chachamim maintain that the nesachim are not locked to the korban. R’ Meir however disagrees since we find (7:3) that shechitat pigul is mekadesh that lachmei todah.

The difficulty that the Tosfot has with the second answer is that this would mean that even according to the Chachamim, pigul could affect the nesachim if there was pigul intent in one of avodot after shechita. The Mishnah however does not imply that that is their position.

The Chazon Ish (Zevachim 14:1) answers that the real reason the Chachamim maintain that shechitat pigul does not affect the nesachim is because the shechita of the korban is not matir of the nesachim. One brings the nechasim, but they can be brought on a different day. Therefore it does not matter which avoda caused the korban to become pigul. When R’ Meir however responded that the nesachim are pigul and fixed at the time of shechita, the Chachamim questioned why an invalid shechita would have that effect. Since it is not a question at the core of the debate it explains why R’ Meir’s response is not recorded in the Beraita and left to Rava to respond in the Gemara. 

¹ The Gemara (79b) explains that we are dealing with korbanot tzibbur. Ordinarily nesachim sanctified for use in one korban cannot be used for another. With korbanot tzibbur however, Beit Din stipulate that if anything happens to one korban the nesachim can be used for another.

Download